Bankless Shows - Sam Altman and Alex Blania on Worldcoin

In this episode of Bankless which took place on July 24, 2023, David from Bankless is joined by Sam Altman and Alex Bania to discuss Worldcoin, Worldcoin’s crypto token distribution plan, how the data is stored, and more! Read our notes below to learn more.

Background

David Hoffman (Host) – co-founder of Bankless

Sam Altman (Guest) – CEO of OpenAI and Co-founder of Worldcoin

Alex Bania (Guest) – Co-founder and CEO of Worldcoin

Worldcoin – a privacy-preserving digital identity network (World ID) built on proof of personhood

Exploring the Origins and Objectives of Worldcoin

Sam Altman says that his initial thoughts were about creating a vast financial and identity network, and how to verify unique identities on a global scale. His ideas were influenced by his work on OpenAI and his belief in Universal Basic Income (UBI) as a concept worth studying.
Sam says that the early motivation for Worldcoin combined the goals of UBI and identity verification.
Alex shares that they started working on Worldcoin in January 2020, following initial work by Sam and Max. Alex says that he has a background in theoretical physics and AI systems.
Alex says that Worldcoin chose iris scanning recognition over palm scanning for human identification because of the need for a strong “civil resistance” mechanism in crypto to verify unique human identity and prevent fraud. They had considered several options, including Know Your Customer (KYC), web of trust, and biometrics.
Alex explains that typical biometric methods, such as face and fingerprint recognition, do not have enough entropy, or uniqueness, for one-to-many comparisons necessary for proof of personhood. He says that iris recognition meets this requirement.

Exploring Worldcoin’s Orb

David mentions that government IDs don’t align with the ethos of cryptocurrency, leading to the exploration of other identity models like the web of trust and biometrics. He says that the biometric solution, particularly the iris, is robust and entropic enough to establish a unique human identity.
David says that Worldcoin’s adoption of biometrics necessitates the use of the Orb (Worldcoin’s proprietary device) in the physical world to map an individual’s iris data.
Alex explains that in the face of AI and digital content blurring the idea of humanness, Worldcoin bridges to the real world. He describes the Orb as a highly engineered device with numerous sensors to ensure a real human is being scanned and that all computations happen locally.
Alex explains the Orb images the eye, calculates a unique iris code, signs it on the device, and sends it out. Importantly, the uniqueness check is separated from the user’s wallet through zero-knowledge proofs, preserving privacy and decentralization.
David asks Alex to elaborate on the security measures of the Orb, specifically against attempts to trick the device.
Alex says the Orb uses multispectral imaging to ensure a real human is being scanned, and all these checks are done locally, maintaining privacy. He says that they had to build their own lens and imaging system for high resolution.
Asked by David about the advanced level of their retina scan technology, Alex says that it’s likely among the most advanced, apart from any undisclosed military technologies.
David highlights the importance of the Orb’s ability to verify unique humans, a necessary step in the age of AI.
Alex says that privacy is crucial and lists measures taken by Worldcoin: biometric data is not stored, all computations happen on the device, the uniqueness check is separated from the user’s wallet, it’s a self-custodial setup, and the project is open-source. He says that these measures should alleviate privacy concerns.
Alex details the process from iris scanning to app login, which includes downloading the Worldcoin App, going to the Orb location, verifying identity, generating key pairs on the user’s phone, the Orb checking for humanness and uniqueness, and then signing the unique iris code. The code goes to the backend, a uniqueness check happens, and the user uses World ID to prove inclusion into the set of users.
David says that Worldcoin does not ask for personal information like names or addresses. Alex confirms this, adding that such information is only asked for when using ramping solutions but not by Worldcoin itself.

Discussing the Future of Worldcoin

David explains that Worldcoin does not require personal information, only a unique public address derived from verifiable humans.
Sam says that powerful AI systems should be accessible to real humans. He believes Worldcoin’s privacy vision is fair and compelling and that it can offer many benefits. He also believes that the ability to verify oneself as a human will be necessary.
Alex talks about the various potential applications of proof of personhood in the crypto space, like under collateralized lending. He sees proof of personhood as the foundation for identity, which can lead to many possibilities.
Sam believes it’s too early to discuss specific paths to integrate OpenAI and Worldcoin, but hopes that the future will reveal opportunities.
Alex explains the mechanism of Worldcoin distribution without going into too many details due to regulatory uncertainty. He mentions that the system is designed to scale to billions of people over time.
David asks whether there’s an incentive to get a World ID earlier. Alex says that there is a reinforcing flywheel effect, as it’s not just about the Worldcoin ID but also the World app.
David comments on the many moving parts of the Worldcoin project, such as the Orb, the coin $WLD, the mobile app, the scanning effort, and layer-2 built on the stack. Alex says that managing the project has been a crazy journey, requiring teams across various fields.
Sam says that it’s been exciting to see the Worldcoin team grow and take on new challenges. He believes that small, driven teams can accomplish more than they realize.

Exploring the Operations, Development, and Future Outlook of Worldcoin

David asks Sam about his day-to-day involvement with the Worldcoin Project. Sam says that he provides support where needed and there isn’t a specific area or project assigned to him.
Alex says that the $WLD token will launch on OP mainnet, not on a layer-2 stack initially. A layer-2 will come later in the year. They decided on Optimism because of the valuable feedback and cooperation they received from the team over the last few months.
Alex explains that the Worldcoin infrastructure will include a World ID that sits on the Ethereum mainnet, and users will provide an inclusion proof to bridge to different ecosystems. The token will be on the mainnet and later in the year, they will have their own layer-2 which is important for identity primitives and native applications.
Alex shares that they’ve scanned 1.7 million irises so far using about 210 devices. The strategy has involved iterating on the product, scaling globally to understand potential roadblocks, and focusing on four key markets: Buenos Aires, Lisbon, Nairobi, Delhi, and Bangalore.
Alex says that Worldcoin has to become a decentralized protocol. Orb operators will be paid by the protocol, and the Worldcoin Foundation will set the standard. Eventually, anyone will be able to produce and operate their own Orbs, and the protocol will financially incentivize Orb manufacturers.
Alex emphasizes the importance of quality control, fraud detection, and empowering the user through education and app functionalities.
Both Alex and Sam agree they’re still in the early stages, though they’ve seen promising results with 600,000 monthly active users and adding more than 40,000 users a week.
David notes the initial negative reaction to Worldcoin from the crypto industry but also observes the growing respect and talent attracted to the project.
Alex recounts their initial announcement wasn’t planned but was due to a journalist leak. Despite the initial pushback, they’ve built a strong team and gained significant support for the project.
Sam notes the early personal attacks were difficult, but he remained undeterred due to previous experiences with such cycles.

Exploring Mixed Opinions and the Future of OpenAI and Worldcoin

David acknowledges that some people will not be swayed by Worldcoin’s privacy approach, no matter how much they explain the technology and zero-knowledge cryptography.
Sam says that those who are uncomfortable with Worldcoin are free not to sign up, adding that it’s important to reiterate this point.
Sam says that it feels like there’s more than just an open mind, suggesting a sense of enthusiasm at this point.
Alex says that most people who have concerns simply haven’t read or understood the documentation. He says that Worldcoin is open source and invites people to consult the documentation and code, as well as discuss any issues they may have with their team.
Alex says that they are hiring across various areas from product to AI to further their mission.
Sam outlines three aspects of the AI alignment debate: the need for more technical progress, the necessity for international regulatory cooperation, and the consideration of human misuse of technology, including AI.

Check Out These Important Links

Show Information

Medium: Podcast (YouTube)
Show: Bankless
Show Title: Worldcoin’s Sam Altman & Alex Blania on Crypto’s Most Ambitious Project
Show Date: July 24, 2023